KNK Maxx or Craft Robo Pro

[konaboy76]

I see a lot of comparisons between the KNK and CR, but not so much with the CR Pro which I think is more in the same class.

I am seriously considering the KNK Maxx either the 15 or 24 mainly because of cutting force. Actually, I am on the fence between the KNK Maxx and the Craft Robo Pro. The only thing stopping me from getting the CRP is the 300g of force as compared to almost 1K of force on the KNK machines. But, the main thing that is stopping me from jumping for the KNK is the fact that I do plan on doing quite a few print and cuts (having it done automatically rather than manual is really appealing), plan on doing scoring, and the fact that I am a heavy heavy Illustrator person.

The main reason for wanting a lot of downforce is because I would need it to score ~100lbs cover card stock paper. So, does the KNK have a scoring tip? I know the CRP does, but 300g isn't nearly enough force.

Also, the fact that I am a Illustrator guy makes the decision even harder for me. But, I do hear that you can open AI files in the KNK software. Does this mean layers too? Also, does the KNK software "open" or "import" and AI file? In other words, can I open the AI file in KNK, see something wrong, save the project as a KNK project, close the file, open the file in AI, fix whatever needs to be fixed, close out of AI, and reopen the KNK project and have it reflect the change? Wow, that was a lot of commas.

Cutting. I downloaded the CRP software to take a look at it. What I find really appealing is that I can have the machine cut different layers (or colors) at different pressures and blades depths so I can cut one layer through and "scratch" one layer for valley or mountain folds. Can the KNK software do this?

One pro for the KNK is the 24" machine which I will probably get if I choose to go KNK. The reason is that I can make a 24" x 24" mat and cut out 4 12" x 12" sheets at one time. This is very appealing for when I have to cut one layer with a blade, change tips, and score another layer.

I know I am asking a lot so any help would be appreciated. Oh, I do plan on doing production cutting A LOT for retail.

Moku

[Paperthreads]

I see a lot of comparisons between the KNK and CR, but not so much with the CR Pro which I think is more in the same class.

We don't do a lot of comparing with the CRPro, as it never really reached a large market in the US....but yes, they would be a bit more comparible.

But, the main thing that is stopping me from jumping for the KNK is the fact that I do plan on doing quite a few print and cuts (having it done automatically rather than manual is really appealing), plan on doing scoring, and the fact that I am a heavy heavy Illustrator person.

The optical eye versus the laser alignment have their pros and cons. The CONS of the optical eye are that you have to use white or very light colored paper in order for the optic eye to read the registration marks. The registration marks on the machine takes your cutting width even further down, requiring a large margin around the graphic. These are not the case with the laser alignment. The con to the laser alignment is you have to align manually, in the beginning this will be a bit more time consuming, but as you practice and get good at it, it can be done FASTER than the optical eye can read and align.

The main reason for wanting a lot of downforce is because I would need it to score ~100lbs cover card stock paper. So, does the KNK have a scoring tip? I know the CRP does, but 300g isn't nearly enough force.

The KNK has a large blade jaw, allowing you to USE the scoring tip the CRP uses :) So, in essence, yes it has a scoring tip, as you can use SEVERAL of the different brands out there on this machine.

Also, the fact that I am a Illustrator guy makes the decision even harder for me.

You can use either import or open to get an AI File in KNK. Even easier, you can COPY the cut lines in AI, then PASTE directly into your document in KNK, alleviating the need to save, close, open, resave, reclose, back and forth between the two programs.

Cutting. I downloaded the CRP software to take a look at it. What I find really appealing is that I can have the machine cut different layers (or colors) at different pressures and blades depths so I can cut one layer through and "scratch" one layer for valley or mountain folds. Can the KNK software do this?

Yes...you can cut by color, you can change blades, tools, pressure and speed between each colored cut. It's actually even MORE flexible than the CRP machines capabilities.

I know I am asking a lot so any help would be appreciated. Oh, I do plan on doing production cutting A LOT for retail.

For retail, the KNK is ultimately a more flexible machine, with excellent long term usability. No matter what project you do, in the beginning it will be a bit more time consuming, but as your grow more familar with the machine, the software and the process, you can seriously get some good production times going for your projects! I personally us the KNK machines (have been using them for over 2 years now) in the production capacity, and my machines get a good workout, and have been very very good to me!

[games]

Michelle can he cut from Illy directly to the knk maxx? with the bridge?

I have an knk element (which is smaller and not as much cutting force) but I do love my element. It is perfect for my cutting needs. If you look in the cutter vision section you can see some videos that may help you. Also check out videos on utube. Enjoy!

[Paperthreads]

There is no bridge to cut directly from AI to KNK :) All files cut to a KNK has to go through KNK Program (old models can go through Funtime, new models only through KNK program)

[konaboy76]

Hey Michelle,

Thanks for all the great info. I am really starting to lean more towards the KNK machines even though I won't be able to work from within AI.

I know that AI is an Adobe products and on whatever version making it a much more mature program, but how close is the KNK program in terms of what it can do compared to KNK? Does it have the pen path tool? Can it edit nodes on that path after the fact? I am sure it has a line tool? Copy and paste in front? Basically, does it have the same tools as AI?

Next, how is the warranty with KNK? If it breaks, do I sent it to you or Accu? Do I have to pay for shipping to and from? How long does it typically take to fix?

Purchasing accessories. Typically, I will be cutting 100 lb cover paper, whatever weight regular 12 x 12 craft paper is which is a lot less than 100 lb cover, and probably chipboard eventually. Oh, these will more than likely be scored somewhere on the page. Oh, I should get the FLATbed thing I guess. So, with that said, what other accessories should be I buying?

Lastly, shipping. How much to Hawaii (96819) using 2nd day air (ground takes too long) using whichever carrier? Oh, most places say that the Krylon spray that comes with the KNK machines can't go air. Oh, if it can go air, can I buy more than one can since no one seems to have it here and better take advantage of the opportunity? I am thinking 5 cans or so which should last me a while.

Well, that is about all I can think of for now. I really need as much info as I can so I can pitch it to my partners (I am the prototype/production person in the team so I use the tools to make the goods).

Moku

[scramper75]

Just my little input here... You can use AI to make your file and just import them into KNK studio to cut your design.

[Shirley803]

Most of the designers at Paperthreads design in AI and then convert it to a KNK file. It takes a few steps but is relatively easy!

The warranty is a year and you have to pay to have it sent to Accugraphics and then they send it back to you. Honestly though, I think these machines are pretty durable and the chances of having to use the warranty is pretty remote.

If you get the MAXX, the flatbeds are included.

Good luck with your pitch the partners!:o

[Paperthreads]

One correction...

On warranty, you pay shipping both ways, they pay for the repair. It takes about 3-4 days once in house to get it fixed. They often do it within a day, as they don't have to do a lot of repairs, so when one comes in for repair, they take care of it right away.

You can edit nodes, but not in EXACTLY the same way that AI does it, it's more in the way that corel draw does it...but you can use the pen tool, drop some edit nodes on the page and then manipulate the path. Check out the Cuttervision tutorials, you will see some things on the videos that show the software working.

I recommend the sliver 2 and sliver blades for the heavy material. The sliver2 will take care of most of your cutting needs.

Flatbeds come with the machine! They ship the machine FEDEX, and I will find out a shipping price on the Maxx machine for you, and we can add more spray to the order, which would be a good idea for you, so you don't have to add more shipping later!

[konaboy76]

Elizabeth,

I know that you can import/open an AI file in KNK, but the concern for me was editing that AI file at a later time. In other words, say I design my object in AI, open in KNK, and cut it out. After looking at the cutout, I realize that something needs to be changed. So, I want to be able to edit that same AI file in AI and able to reopen and cut in KNK without too much trouble. Currently (our first stab at die cutting), I am using a Cricut Expression and SCAL and it is killing me to have to get out of AI to cut and then go back into AI to edit and repeat. I think that was the #1 reason for looking at Graphtec which was because I could cut right from AI.

Shirley and Michelle, it seemed like the FLATbeds didn't come with the machine, but glad that it does.

While looking at through the store, I did notice the punch tool and also noticed that the KNK has a drill and pounce function. I do recall that the CRP also has this function which means it can do perforations? If so, can it be turned off/on from within the KNK software? What I would use this function for it to have my file set up in multiple layers with one being for "cut," one for "score," and the other for perforations.

Hmm, can you create "presets" in the cut section of the software? In the CRP software, you can create different presets depending on what you want like cut and perforate with a certain cutting pressure depending on your medium and then be able to call it up again later to use again on a different file.

How about a cutting manager? Flexisign has this and I think it could be very useful. I think the main reason for this is if I have multiple machines (just thinking about the future). It would be cool if I could be able to hook up multiple cutters to the computer and be able to send different (or same) jobs to different cutters. I would then be able prep one machine while the other one cuts. Wow, that would be cool.

I didn't notice, but is there a trial version of the KNK software? I lot of my questions would be answered if I could just play around with it.

This is great. I am really starting to narrow it down.

Moku

[Shirley803]

I feel your pain about going back to AI to do corrections, BUT I'm happy to say that I'm learning to do things in KNK. So once I convert into KNK, I cut and if I need to make changes, I do it in the KNK program, then I can export the KNK into Illustrator. It works well and forces me to learn new things in KNK!

You can do perforations without the punch tool. It's called pounced (dashed lines) in KNK. You can set the length of your dashes too! It's too cool! YOu can do it all in the same layer, you just specify a color for pounced lines only.

There is a way to set up some presets. I haven't tried it yet, but that's my understanding. Michelle will correct me if I'm wrong.

And yes, you can get a demo version of KNK. I also suggest you go to the Cuttervsion section and watch Michelle's videos. They will help you to see how easy the KNK software is. Michelle I went to get the link for the demo software and coudln't find the demo download. Maybe it's too early? That's my excuse!

[Paperthreads]

It's at the suppliers site: www.scrapbookdiecutter/downloads


You will find that once you create the file, cut it, and need edits, that it's just EASIER to edit that file directly in KNK rather than going back to the AI software again.

Once the file is completely finalized, you can then export it back as an AI file, and take it back to AI if you need it in that format!

SCAL is a VERY basic program, very primitive in it's abilities, and I would say it's more a cutting utility than anything else, as most people that own it, end up in another program to make their file...and if they want to cut out layers, they have to bring in each portion separate....

in the KNK machine, the software recognizes path stroke colors, so if you want to cut in layers, you send your file through, then do a cut by color. Some of this stuff if demonstrated in the cuttervision section, as well as in our tutorials in the newsletter!

[scramper75]

I understand what you mean and it looks as though Shirley and Michelle have answered your questions.

I have worked very little in AI but have found it is a very powerful and nice program.


Elizabeth,

I know that you can import/open an AI file in KNK, but the concern for me was editing that AI file at a later time. In other words, say I design my object in AI, open in KNK, and cut it out. After looking at the cutout, I realize that something needs to be changed. So, I want to be able to edit that same AI file in AI and able to reopen and cut in KNK without too much trouble. Currently (our first stab at die cutting), I am using a Cricut Expression and SCAL and it is killing me to have to get out of AI to cut and then go back into AI to edit and repeat. I think that was the #1 reason for looking at Graphtec which was because I could cut right from AI.
Moku

[konaboy76]

First, when I first found this site, I viewed it as a guess like everyone else. The problem was that you can't get into a lot of areas as a guess and the KNK area I think was one of them so a lot of my questions would have been answered had I checked that area out. Anyways, sorry if I asked questions that could have been answered had I just checked it out.

Anyways, it is really reassuring to me that I can create in AI, import into KNK, make whatever changes there, and export the final version back to AI. The main reason for doing this is because I will almost always be able to open and AI file in the future using another program, but not so much a KNK file. A friends of mine used a propietary (sp) software in the past to create stuff for vinyl cutting on a computer without ethernet, only usb1, no burner, and only a floppy drive. This was years ago so you can understand my frustration when I had to open each and every one of her projects (hundreds of them) and export to AI (ask my why that was an option I don't know). After that, I had to save those files to floppy and transfer it to the new computer. It took me about a week doing it constantly so I just don't want to go through that process again in the event that I don't use the KNK software for whatever reason like upgrading to a more efficient cutter like the $10000+ Graphtec FC2250 and have to use their software.

Thanks for the link to the demo KNK Studio, will check it out. That should really help me out.

"SCAL is a VERY basic program, very primitive in it's abilities" is really an understatement. In the beginning, we were only looking at the Cricut and Pazzles because that is all we knew about at the time. The Pazzle Pro costs about 10x the cost of an Expression so we really was only looking at the Cricut. But, there was no way I would even consider a machine that I would be stuck with only what was available. So, I jumped at SCAL when I found it because it allowed me to cut what I wanted and that I didn't have to buy any cartridges (the machine came with one that sits in the machine so the machine thinks it is cutting its shapes). After working with my partners and cutting out stuff, the ability to cut whatever we wanted quickly "got to their heads" and now they are wanted multi-layered item which really does take up a lot of time in SCAL because of the fact that you have to import one layer at a time, cut, and repeat. Quite frankly, I am sick of it and am totally ready for a better way to do it.

Onto some new things. Does anyone know what is the thickest mat that the KNK can take? Or, what is the material that the KNK machines comes with. For a lot of the projects that we will be doing, there will be a cut and score pass. So, my idea will be to use a 24" x 36" (25" x 40" to use as the border and leader for the front) mat with four sheets of paper on it. That way, I can cut four sheets, change blades, and score the four sheets rather than one at a time. Not knowing anything else, my plan is to take 3 - 12" x 24" sheets and tape them together. But, if I knew the max thickness, I am sure I could find the material (self healing mat preferably) to make a mat that size.

Lastly, phone support. Hopefully, I won't have to use it, but I really want to be able to talk to someone in the event that the machine isn't doing what it is supposed to. When it is crunch time, going back and forth with email to try and figure out a problem isn't going to cut it. To me, support is everything. "Better to have and not need than need and not have"

Like always, mahalo nui loa (thank you very much in Hawaiian).
Moku

[konaboy76]

P.S. Yeah, I am not a probation anymore since my post show up right away. Mahalo to Michelle.

Moku

[konaboy76]

The link to the download listed below isn't complete. Here is the complete link.

http://www.scrapbookdiecutter.com/downloads.htm

Moku

[Paperthreads]

Phone support is handled with me, if you purchased through me. If you purchased with a different retailer, that retailer is your first line of support.

I run my business from my home, and I work usually 6 days a week, with the times being variable, as I try to work a few evenings a week to be available for those customers that can't call in the day time, or that are on other time zones. Some things can easily be handled with email, but I agree with you, there are some things that can't be handled on email, and I will tell the customer to call me, or we will set up a call time if it's the evening. I'm pretty flexible with it! Normally, I answer the phone all evenings, but once in a while, I am with the family, or just tired :)

You can use ANY material, really, for a mat. The new mats are about 2 times thicker than your Cricut mat, if that puts it in perspective for you. You could even special order a mat to the size you need, as they are doing larger mats by special order for the 24" customers. Because you are in HA...i would recommend that you order one to be shipped with your machine, save on any expensive shipping costs....

[konaboy76]

Hey Michelle,

So, what state do you live in? As long as I know the "window of opportunity," that is usually good enough for me.

Even though the max "cutting" width is 15"/24", what is the max width that can actually go through the machine? In other words, if I wanted to have my mat custom made, then can it be 17"/26" x whatevers to give the cutting medium some room?

We are getting close. Hope this info will help someone else going through the same process as I am currently.

Moku

[jadkinsmd]

Even though the max "cutting" width is 15"/24", what is the max width that can actually go through the machine? In other words, if I wanted to have my mat custom made, then can it be 17"/26" x whatevers to give the cutting medium some room?

My 24 inch has an opening for a mat 26 1/2 inches wide.

[Paperthreads]

And the opening for the 15" is about 17.5" long.

I'm on EST right now :) But that will possibly change in June, as we are moving Paperthreads (or should I say the USAF is moving my husband, and I'm going with...taking PT with me!)